Tell Me What YOU Think
One of my favorite bloggers, Wes, had another interesting post today (as is the norm for him). I've found myself discussing it with several people, and I'm going to bring it up here for y'all to ponder too. Yeah, ponder...I'm in Texas, get over it. :)
Now, one thing I want to make clear is I am crazy about this guy and think the world of him. Feel free to say whatever you want about the topic, but no personal attacks (on Wes or me, lol).
Here is the post as Wes wrote it:
A Seat. On a Bus. That's All It Is.
Tens of Thousands Mourn Rosa Parks at US Capitol
I understand; she's black, and she didn't give her seat to a white dude. Good for her, really. Any idiot, black or white, who takes a woman's seat on a train, the Metro, or anywhere else is a schmuck. That's just the rule. That's the way it's always been and always will be. But for the people who make this Rosa Parks thing just as important in history as when God created the Earth.... c'mon, it was just a seat on an effin' bus. Here this woman refused to give her seat to whitey and it's like the Second Coming. What about all of the blacks (crap, did I offend someone? should I say "African-Americans"? aw man, did it now.... "negros", oops, did it again.... "people of a darker skin tone".... there we go) who gave their lives and/or suffered for the Civil Rights Movement? Nah, we don't hear about those people. Those stories aren't as happy and stupid-simple as this one. I understand, it was a nice , little historical event.... now let's just wear the hell out of it so people won't forget.
Oh yeah, gotta keep the bus.... WTF?! The 1948 GM Whitey Wagon was restored, "da seat" was marked, and it was put it into a museum. The latest location; Montgomery, AL. Interesting choice.
Now, one thing I want to make clear is I am crazy about this guy and think the world of him. Feel free to say whatever you want about the topic, but no personal attacks (on Wes or me, lol).
Here is the post as Wes wrote it:
A Seat. On a Bus. That's All It Is.
Tens of Thousands Mourn Rosa Parks at US Capitol
I understand; she's black, and she didn't give her seat to a white dude. Good for her, really. Any idiot, black or white, who takes a woman's seat on a train, the Metro, or anywhere else is a schmuck. That's just the rule. That's the way it's always been and always will be. But for the people who make this Rosa Parks thing just as important in history as when God created the Earth.... c'mon, it was just a seat on an effin' bus. Here this woman refused to give her seat to whitey and it's like the Second Coming. What about all of the blacks (crap, did I offend someone? should I say "African-Americans"? aw man, did it now.... "negros", oops, did it again.... "people of a darker skin tone".... there we go) who gave their lives and/or suffered for the Civil Rights Movement? Nah, we don't hear about those people. Those stories aren't as happy and stupid-simple as this one. I understand, it was a nice , little historical event.... now let's just wear the hell out of it so people won't forget.
Oh yeah, gotta keep the bus.... WTF?! The 1948 GM Whitey Wagon was restored, "da seat" was marked, and it was put it into a museum. The latest location; Montgomery, AL. Interesting choice.
posted by kathi | 3:58 PM
46 Comments:
Well, I didn't expect this. I wanted to post this on my blog because Wes and I had such a difference of opinions on it. At least, though, on Wes's blog, he and I were able to voice our differences to each other respectfully. I guess that isn't going to happen on my blog, and I'm disappointed.
I could tell when I checked in just now, that my stats counter showed 52 visits, and let me know who visited. So, I'm confused friends, can we not voice opinions in fear of offending or do you just not care about the topic? Hmmmmm, yup, I am disappointed.
Crazy for ya too Kath.... and glad nobody was drinkin' the Haterade :)
You guys think that maybe she got away with it because she was playing the "Always Respect Your Elders" card. I'm not saying she shouldn't be remembered. I do remember when I was younger much younger and learning about civil rights, I thought to myself who would do anything to her she was an old lady! How come I can't remember the names of the three civil rights workers who were murdered for trying to help register the black voters. Katy
katy ~ my katy???
I remember thinking that too, Katy. But, I think that with what was happening at the time, the same thing that happened to James Chaney, Andrew Goodman, and Michael H. Schwerner (the 3 civil rights volunteers) could have happened to her. And she did change so much by her act. I just appreciate her courage and conviction.
Hey, thanks for commenting.
wes ~ lol, yeah, me too.
kathi: I'm one of the ones who stopped by and didn't reply at the time. I think it was mostly because I wasn't really in the mood to get too deep and political with an answer, as I'd been posting several of those on other blogs lately.
I think Rosa Parks was an icon of the civil rights movement, simply because her story was so "simple." People today don't really get that just 50 years ago, the racial discrimination was nothing like it is today, especially in southern states. There was nothing unusual at all for black men and women to be killed out of hand, or to disappear forever and presumed dead.
And Rosa Parks wasn't an accidental civil rights activist. She'd been involved in the movement for some time. And it was actually another woman, a contemporary of parks, who used the bus incident to launch what became the Montgomery bus boycott.
I think it's important that we gave Parks the recognition after her death because she deserved it and because it serves as a reminder to all those who were forgotten. Medgar Evans and Martin Luther King Jr. are pretty much the only ones who really stand out outside of parks, but all across the United States there were people — and not just black people — who stood up for what they thought was right, and against what was wrong.
There's a tendency in this country for us to want to tear down people. No one is perfect and we shouldn't hide the truth, but why is there this need to attack or attempt to bring low people of a certain stature, especially after their death?
Anyway ... there are a few of my cents contributed to the discussion ....
dzer ~ THANK YOU
chrissie ~ like you wouldn't enjoy the 'getting smacked with a ruler'. :)
I stopped by lastnight but was way too tired to even think let alone voice any opinions...lol
and that is just what this is..someones opinion about it. everyone is entitled to that.
I think it is a major step in history and should be remembered and I'm glad to see she was remembered and had the memorial service. I think that putting the bus in the museum is a perfect thing to do. It's part of american history and should be remembered.
I agree 100% with chrissie's statement... "What it comes down to is this, even though you don’t see the value in it… someone else does. That’s all ya need to know."....that sums it all up to me.
jan ~ thanks for commenting.
Less than 4 days to go till you're on vacation...yahooo!
I can agree with the Hickster on that....
wes ~ me too.
So I finally figured this out.Thats me always behind the times.
So far I think I pretty much agree with everyones comments. Thanks for refreshing my memory on their names. I am not surprised that you knew their names.
I think its safe to say that there were more than a couple of people who whould have loved to see her dead for her actions.
Like Midwest Hick said different time and place.
Some would say we have moved past discrimination others would say we have a long way to go.
Katy
katy ~ some would say that. I would say that I'm thrilled to finally see you posting here, I think everyone probably thought you were a figment of my imagination.
Definitely a different time with different results... I think she was very brave to stand up for her rights. She could have lost her life over that seat.
Now for Wes, I have to totally agree with this politically incorrect b/s about what 'blacks' want to be referred to. They call us 'white', so I am taking it that 'black' is not a bad thing to say. Why do we all have to walk on eggshells with these terms we give one another...
Then, you see black people calling one another the "N" word. It's almost appauling. I never understood how they decided, "Hey, let's just call each other the word we hate the most!"
I had to touch upon that subject, because it's one that really makes you think,...
Great post Wes, and thank you Kathi for bringing it to our attention.
:)
Peace~
Hi Kathi,
Wow you're brave for posting this, LOL! I'm a minority woman and I don't even get into this territory. Hey, I have nothing to say on this because well people's opinions are there opinions. Some people think nothing in history was important but we need to remember that it may be important to the group of people it helped. Blacks/Indians/Hispanics/Jews/Italians, have all been involved in something that's shaped this country. Hey if it weren't for immigrants, there would be no America. My point is this, we can all have our opinions but when it offends others we as adults can think twice (especially if we consider ourselves good people) and try not to offend. Like me, I make sure that I don't offend people whether it's on purpose or not. I've had a lot of things to say about Republicans, Causcion (sp?) people or white, whatever you prefer but I just don't do it because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. My point is this, when you get into race it is very sensitive and I am also smart enough to know that some people start these topics up to get attention. How do I know? Well most of the people who bring these up wouldn't have the guts to say it to the face of the people they are offending right? Nope. My point is that we have a responsibility to at least be respectful and the fact is that I did find that post (not yours but your friend's), offensive. Don't ask why uh, maybe it's because I'm a minority women but...Kathi, I'm the kind of person where I truly care about others and their opinions and I don't play the race card so don't think I'm one of those people who harp about being a minority. So understand that I don't give 2 sh*ts about what someone thinks about Rosa Parks if it's negative because the fact is that woman did change history for all of us. And if the shoe had been on the other foot, I don't think you could pick a HUNDRED MEN, no matter the color and they'd have the courage to do what she did. She'd simply had enough and people can say it was just a seat on the bus but until you knew what it felt like to be treated like an animal, can't go here, can't go there, can't eat here, can't walk there, just because of who you are, then maybe those people shouldn't touch on this category. Of course someone people say it was just a seat on the bus, but look at who is saying it. That's the picture right? Just because it didn't pertain to someone's personal history does not mean it wasn't important. It's just a respect thing. But hey, some people don't know tact from their ass right? LOL!
I'm outspoken, that's why they call me the Voice of the Gen X Author. I'm way a head of my time. I'm a 100 year-old warrior living in the body of a 27 year-old woman. That's just the way it is so when I speak, most people listen. And I tackle issues with respect to all. I think I see why you posted this really. I also know you are a kind person, etc. I see that from just reading your blog. I hope I didn't personally attack your buddy. I didn't mean to. I was talking in terms of people and how they should act towards each other in general.
Anyway, Kathi, I changed my new blog design. I hope you give me your opinion when you stop by the next time.
Also, since some are wondering why Rosa is getting so much attention, it's probably the same reason some miniorities don't really celebrate Independance Day or find it that important personally. I guess if you get some of these struggles out of the way we all could but...
I don't think a lot of people realize that half the holidays don't even mean squat to us. So it's the same difference with Civil Rights issues not meaning much to other people. But I won't get into that. Sorry I wrote so much, LOL!
I agree that many people lost their lives and those people are important, of course. And yes, just re-stating what everyone has already posted etc... however, being that Wes is a white man, it doesn't surprise me that this would not affect him in the same way it affects many minorities today. And whether it was meant to be a racist post or not, I definitely feel an under current of dislike for black people (hence the "what do I call them now" phrase).
Maybe I read too much into things... I'm just sayin. Now I'll get hate mail. No Hate for Wes, just saying what I got from it.
She did what she did... in the fifties... in Alabama. Her gender notwithstanding, the gal had balls.
blackops ~ what?
stacy-deanne ~ thank you so much for speaking up. This is why I find it's important that we do talk about it. I had no idea that people thought it was just another seat on a bus...and I honestly wondered how others felt about it. I feel like you do about purposely hurting others feelings or offending people. But I also feel (like Rosa must've felt) that enough is enough and somethings must be addressed.
I'll be by to see your blog. Thanks again for commenting, I appreciate you.
kellie ~ I imagine everyone see's things from a different point of view depending on where they come from (personally, not geographically) and what they've witnessed in their own life. I come from the north and was brought up in the middle of KKK country. But, I had one black girl in my entire class and she and I became close friends but my father wouldn't allow her in our house. So, I saw the pain and felt the shame too.
I don't think Wes has any dislike for anyone based on anything other than their actions or personality. He's a good guy, it's just the way he sees things. And I do admire him for bringing up the difficult topics and opens himself up for debuttal.
kevin ~ she did indeed. Big ones.
larin ~ I, too, love it when you stop by my blog. You know I'm a fan of yours. I think too few (black or white) get too little recognition for the part they played in the civil rights movement. But when I remember what it was like while I was growing up in the north (like I said, midst of the KKK) and see my kids not notice or pay any attention to color, I thank each and every person that stood up for what they believed in.
All opinions are valid, though, hon. Thanks so much for voicing yours. I can't get over what a strong woman you are and yet so young.
Thank you for pointing him out Kathi.
From another perspective, maybe not exactly relative, but somewhat - as a female, I'm honored she stood up. (btw, she was not some "old lady" - she was only in her FORTIES- so I take exception to that Katy!!) But, as a female, women have had to fight for so many more things - the right to vote, work, equal pay (ha!), etc. Not only did she stand up for herself as a black woman, she stood up for all women, no matter the color. I can't really verbalize why I see it that way, but I do. Her act was not as simple as keeping her seat on the bus. Her act helped us progress. I'm sure we still have a long way to go, but I believe she should be remembered. She should be honored, and ...oh - sigh, I'm not writing what's really in my head. I just feel she was one helluva brave woman, and as a woman, I think that's fantastic.
For a moment I was upset and angry about Wes comments. I went to his blog to literally curse him out blog style :). I kept clicking to post a comment but the page would not display. Finally it did, and I read White_Devil's comment and I got even more upset. So, I went to White Devil's spot and saw some of offensive comments.
Now at this point I am furious. So I am clicking to post a very ugly comment on his blog and the page would not display. I'm clicking and clicking, still the page would not display. To make a long story short, I ended back here on your blog. I began to read some of the comments people are making. Most of these comments are against Wes opinion. And most of the comments are white people. I felt ashamed because the things I wanted to post on their blogs were going to be racial remarks. Not caring who I offended in the process. I am so glad that I was not able to do it because it would have been immature. I realize that a lot of people have Wes views rather white or black. To me to say the Rosa Parks was not worth honoring is ignorant. But none the less, they have a right to their opinion. That is one lesson I learned from your post today. Thank you so much Kathi for helping me understand that. I will try to never get so upset about another person's view again. I can't change the way Wes thinks and I am not even going to try to. Another thing I learned is that I have inner racial issues that I need to deal with. I was really over here thinking some really hateful thoughts. I am going to work on that.
GP ~ You are such an honest person. You didn't have to tell me what happened and how you felt today, but you did and I can't tell you how much I appreciate you. Your honesty is refreshing. This is why I wanted to discuss this. Not to cause problems among other people, but to understand other people.
Thank you, sweetie, thank you. You know I love you.
wendy ~ you did just fine with what you said, I got what you were saying. I don't think Katy meant 'old' as anything really. When it happened at the time, or when we learned about it happening, to us she was old. Not so much now, lol. Katy is in her 40's, and I know she doesn't think of herself as old. Oh, wait...yeah, strike that statement...lol. Love ya Katy.
Wendy, thanks for your comments.
GP - I'm sorry this stirred such hurtful feelings inside of yourself. Isn't it funny how things work out though - not being able to post something that you may wish you hadn't later on. I think you have a guardian angel watching over you helping you on this tonight. We all do. I feel sorry for people you are so ignorant and narrow minded. I'll never raise my child that way. Never. We can rarely change how people think/act - but we can change how we respond to them. I think people like that get put into our lives to remind us how NOT to be. Right? You were so honest on this post - that is so refreshing.
Kathi, as for the age thing - I was kidding - I'm grappling with turning 40 in a coupla weeks ...
wendy ~ I knew you were kidding, lol. Turning 40 soon, huh? Don't sweat it, been there, done that...and lived to tell about it.
Wendy, I was thinking the same exact thing. Because I kept clicking and clicking but I couldn't get through to post those ugly comments. After I did it [clicking on the post comment link] so many times, I knew something was telling me to re-evaluate the situation and get control of my feelings and use my head. To be quite honest, I know it was God. And I am not trying to get all spiritual, but it was so very odd.
Oh, I said it on my blog let me post it here. Thank you Kathi. You truly changed my life today. I just can't believe how I grew so much in a matter of seconds. Really. Thank you.
I agree with Lady in Satin...Rosa did more than give up a seat...
GP ~ I don't think I've ever been more touched. What a compliment, thank you. You've made a huge impact on me too.
And I'm not sure there is such a thing as being too spiritual, as long as it's genuine.
rose ~ wow, was just on your site via Clay Cane's blog. Kinda freaky, huh? I agree completely, as well. Rosa took a stand for many by taking that seat. God bless her, I imagine there is a great homecoming going on right now for her!
kathi: I am not sure Wes truly understands what was happening in the South at that time. He mentioned that any gentleman would have given any lady, regardless of color, his seat. It was just the right thing to do. Not in Alabama, not at that time.
Rosa Parks was tired that day. I suspect she had surrendered her seat countless times before, but this day, in the heat of the bus, she thought, "This is not fair."
Nearly twenty years later, I witnessed one white man telling a black man, "Get out of my way, N." Yeah, he used the N-word. And to my amazement, the black man moved aside. Racial issues have not been erased, some of the more horible issues have been solved, but I am constantly amazed at the subtle racism that still permiates the state of Georgia. And I think Georgia is not alone.
So help me God if the seat she sat on was sent to a landfill! Oh, the bus has to be restored. Next that bus will have a new engine and go on the same route it did whenever Rosa Parks gave up her seat.
lady ~ Yup. Hate never lifts you up in life, it only weighs you down. I do believe, however, that with openess, you can change yours or someone elses opinions. In fact, GP changed hers. But, I think, it can only be done through love. Hostility never opened anyones eyes.
leesa ~ I agree completely, and your story doesn't surprise me at all. Being here in Texas, I see that not only against blacks but also hispanics. But, like I've said before, it blesses me to be able to contribute to the change by the way I raise my kids, by the way I respect others and by discussions like this.
Thank you all so very much.
Big Hugs.
i think he formed an opinon he doesnt know anything about it. anyone that thinks rosa just sat down is completely misinformed. she worked with the community party, NAACP and that was extremely planned. if it wasnt such a big deal she wouldnt have gotten arrested. there are so many deep and offensive flaws w/ that post. what did he want her to do? run onto the bus w/ a gun and demand all the white folks stand up. many people dont understand those simple steps were ALL black folks could do. people like to forget and rewrite history so quickly. also, his question of "what should i call THEM" lacks the true question of why is the label for black people constantly changing? it is the structural underpinnings of racism, proving we still dont have an idenity. of course the name had to change if we started as niggers/coons/sambos/negro/colored/black/african-american, etc.
cane ~ it's about time you got your butt over here to comment. Thank you. This was an important issue for me and I'm glad you got in on it. You know your voice is important to me.
Wow this stirred up a lot of emotions! ~ *keeping mouth shut for this post*
:)
Okay, so if I take back the respect your elders thing then I would be able to take myself out of that elder catagory too right? But I do still qualify for the ignorant catagory. Kathi,thanks for defending your stupid friend. I'll just shut up now.
What an unbelievable send off they gave Rosa yesterday! I heard the funeral lasted 9 hours.
Okay really I am shuting up now!
Katy
deb ~ why would you keep your mouth shut? The only reason I brought this issue up was hoping for the kind of responses I got.
katy ~ you're kidding, yes? You're one of the smartest people I know. Granted, I have very few friends. :)
Rosa Parks was BLACK?!?!?
Now it all makes sense.
Thank you for clearing that up.
I've lived in Mississippi my whole life, and I've seen the changes in racial attitude, in equality, etc.
40 years is a long time in Mississippi. A lot of changes.
A couple of years after I graduated they instituted Black Homecoming, where all the students got to vote for the regular homecoming queen, but only black students got to vote for the black homecoming queen. In protest of the ridiculousness of this system the student body elected the a football player Homecoming Queen and the Janitor (who was white) as the “Black” Homecoming Queen.
The Powers that be rejected these results, and held another election with the codicil that the winners must be of the proper sex. The next winners were respectively, a potbelly pig named “Hildy” and a black molly named “Aretha” (the fish’s sex was actually indeterminate) These “Queens” were rejected because they weren’t registered students. There was not enough time for another election so the two girls with the highest GPA’s from their respective ethnic groups were crowned.
I'm just babbling at this point. I really don't care what color you are. Just find the humor in whatever goes on. The best way to respond to hate is almost always laughter. Say you got a bunch of Neo-Nazi Skinhead marching in your town, how do you think they'd feel if everybody came to the parade & just laughed their asses off.
When I was a little kid, my dad made some extra money tilling peoples gardens for them. Fella next door saw him workin'real hard and told him, "Bert, there used to be a ol' black feller tilled gardens around here with a plow and a white mule. Maybe that's what you need."
Being the precocious little bastard that I was I piped up, "Oh, no mister. We had us this war an' you cain't buy ol' black fellers any more!"
Hate me, but get to know me first.
Hate me 'cause I'm a mean hateful bastard, not 'cause my tattoos show up better than yours.
Hugs & Kisses
-Bert
The problem I have with the Rosa Parks thing is that they pretend it was all her. In fact, the NAACP had been waiting for the "right person" for some time, so they could make a test case out of this. I believe they decided Ms. Parks had the right temperment.
Although a sweet lady, she was really not much more than a symbol. It would make more sense to memorialize the people who boycotted than this little lady who was one of many arrested for being tired.
Sometimes I wonder if in 200 years, people will turn civil rights icons into saints. People make change. Heroes are sandwiches
The significance of Rosa Parks.
In 1896, Homer Plessey was convicted in Louisiana for riding in a white only railway car. Plessey took his case to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court sided with the state of Louisiana. This established the legality of segregation as long as facilities were kept "separate but equal". Segregation had been fought since that ruling.
In 1955, nearly 60 YEARS later, the nightly news shows people being beaten down, dragged off as they struggle for equality. This is becoming so common that people are no longer shocked. In early 1955, Claudette Colvin, a 15 year old black (colored as they called her in the papers) girl was dragged off a bus in Montgomery and arrested for not giving up her seat to a white person. We don’t hear about her because she was a child and children who don’t respect their elders don’t make good press.
Dec. 1, 1955, Rosa Parks repeated Claudette Colvin’s actions. This time people took notice. She was a frail compared to the officers who were arresting her. The press was waiting. The nation had a face for the civil rights movement. Before the scope was too large, it seemed to be a mob out of control, not this time. She was soft spoken, and RESPECTFUL. She referred to the officers as officers, not nazis or any other slanderous remarks. She admitted her actions but with the curiosity of a child she asked “Why should I have to give up my seat?” The nation felt as if they had a personal stake in helping this movement.
Back then, it was nearly a sin to mistreat a woman, outside your own home. This is what made her the perfect candidate.
Make no mistakes she paid for it. She was fired from her job, continually harassed by the authorities and every nut job that happened to like “their kind” knowing “their place.”
Without her, the Montgomery Bus Boycott, which lasted 13 months, would never have hit the main stream press. Why should the nation care if 17,000 people chose to walk to work? She had regular press releases. The nation took notice. This is why she is the “Mother of the Civil Rights Movement.”
bert ~ The babbling (the homecoming story) was it true? What was the statement being said, was the student body wanting to vote for one and allow them to be black or white, or was the powers that be forcing them to do one black, one white? You've got an odd sense of humor, huh? I can relate to that.
Tre ~ you're welcome.
sabledawn ~ I agree that there are so many (of all races) that are responsible for the changes that took place (and still), but Rosa took that seat. I can't imagine the courage it took to do it knowing what the immediate results would be, people (big, white, redneck men) in her face. And, what the long term results COULD have been.
frida ~ thanks so much for taking the time to educate us. I really appreciate it, it was an amazing read. Thank you.
"A Seat. On a Bus. That's All It Is" Oh really? That title infuriates me.
If you're not personally invested in something and have no idea how significant an act or item is to a group of people, I think it's best to remain silent.
I can't even take his words seriously.
Although I strongly believe that Wes is entitled to his opinion, I think he truly fails to understand that during that time, that type of defiance from a black person marked her for death. So, for not giving up her seat, Rosa could have been an easy target and she was, that is why she and her family had to relocate to Detroit.
Shawn ~ opinions of others are what makes us think for ourselves, what makes our actions so important. Can't ever begrudge someone of their opinions, but that's why it's necessary to discuss openly so things aren't hidden. Hidden things fester.
prince ~ understood. It's why so many here have honored her, her bravery was overwhelming. She went into it knowing the consequences, God love her.
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